The Jay Kim Show #44: Drew Manning (Transcript)
After being a classic judgmental trainer for many years, the ones that would look at overweight people and call them lazy, Drew came up with a brilliant idea on how to relate better with his clients. He made a commitment to stop exercising for six months and follow a restriction-free American diet which basically gained him 75 pounds in the process.
After six months, he switched gears and went through all the pain and lifestyle changes that were needed to get fit again and during that time he learned the entire process and struggles of what his clients normally go through. Why do we have a personal trainer on a podcast about entrepreneurship? Well, Drew is clearly a business mastermind. He is a marketing guru and he’s also a New York Times bestselling author.
He shares with us a lot of the secrets and lessons that he learned along the way. I think you guys are going to find this one very interesting. Let’s get right into it.
Jay: Hey Drew, thanks for coming on the show. We’re really happy to have you. It’s been a while since we’ve last spoken but how you are you doing? How’s everything going?
Drew: I’m good man. It’s my pleasure to be on your show man. Thanks for having me on.
Jay: Awesome dude. For our audience out here in Asia, Drew Manning is quite a well-known fitness guy in the states but maybe you could give us a little bit of background on how you said you got to where you are and entrepreneur yourself which is why I wanted to get you on the podcast. Please tell our audience a little bit about yourself.
Drew: Yeah, you know what’s funny? Very interesting and some people might not notice about me but I actually have some Asian ancestry in me. On my dad’s side, his great grandfather had the last name [Lum Lung 00:02:32] which is Chinese and what’s so funny is if my great, great grandmother … he passed away and my great, great grandmother with the name last Lum Lung remarried an English man with the last name Manning.
If she didn’t remarry that Manning, I would be Drew Lum Lung today looking like I don’t look Asian at all but a lot of people don’t know that about me. Anyways, most people know me from my Fit2Fat2Fit story which I did about six years ago now. I can’t believe how long it’s been but yeah, it went viral online. Basically in a nutshell, here’s what happened.
I grew up my entire life in shape in a family of 11 brothers and sisters. I play football and I wrestled and I had this crazy idea as a trainer to better relate to my clients, I decided to let myself go for six months. I stopped exercising, ate typical American foods and I gained 75 pounds in six months and I documented this on my YouTube channel and my website and it went viral and got picked up by the media.
I went on TV shows like Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew and Good Morning America and Jay Leno. In a brand new book about it, fast forward to now, this is what I do full-time and I even have a TV show on A&E called Fit to Fat to Fit where I coach other trainers now to go through this fit, fat, fit process so they can have more empathy, more respect and a better understanding towards our clients that are overweight.
Jay: Let’s take a quick step back. Okay, before you came up with this idea which we’ll talk about obviously in depth in a bit, you were always a fit guy, you were always into sports, athletics. Did you play sports in college?
Drew: Yes, I played football for three years and then I wrestled for a couple of those years as well. Yes, football and wrestling were my two sports that I did growing up.
Jay: Okay, after you graduated from college, you decided to just jump into the fitness industry full time? Is that what you …
Drew: No. Basically, I went all different directions. Basically, I got a job before even graduate college working for Chrysler as a financial analyst back in 2008. 2009 I was in the finance industry and then worked there for three years. From there, the auto industry took a crash in the economy in general and I had to do 180, I went to the medical field. Completely all over the place but I just had a connection and was working as a neuro-monitoring technician but I did personal training on the side because during that transition of the finance industry to the medical field, there was about eight months where I couldn’t find a job.
I got certified as a personal trainer because that’s always been my passion, health and fitness and decided to do personal training on the side while I was doing the medical job full-time. Then that’s when the idea happened for Fit to Fat to Fit and ran with that idea until I had to make a decision between those two things. It went viral and I had a book deal. I decided to leave my job in the medical field which I actually enjoyed a lot but my passion was more on the health and fitness side. I’ve been doing Fit to Fat to Fit full-time since 2011, 2012.
Jay: Wow, that’s incredible. I actually didn’t know that part of the story.
Drew: Yeah. A lot of people don’t know that.
Jay: Yeah, yeah that’s quite interesting. You have a finance background, I have a finance background as well. That’s actually quite interesting. I’m sure you probably gathered a bit of knowledge and a know how from your few years during finance but, let’s talk about the time when you were doing this thing on the side, you were working as a technician in the medical field but you also had a passion in fitness, what were the circumstances at that time that sparked this idea of Fit to Fat to Fit because I think it’s fascinating.
This is not something that just you wake up one day and you’re like, “I’m going to go through this radical transformation.” Was there a certain trigger or something that you saw, something a client maybe you’re working with that really resonated with you and connected with you and you said I have to do this for this particular client? Tell us about that.
Drew: Yeah basically, like I said, I was working in the medical field full-time traveling quite a bit for that job but then I would have only two to three clients is what I could manage per week. One of my clients was my brother-in-law at the time and he was overweight. Here I was a trainer and I was like, “Yeah, for sure man. I’ll train you.” I think I’ve charged him 10$ per session. Sounds so cheap and we worked out and then the problem with me is that growing up with sports and the culture I grew and I had a very black and white mentality.
Either you do or you do not. There’s no try, right? Basically, I would get frustrated when we would be at a family event and he would be eating the cake and nachos and pizza and I’m like, “Dude, I’m your trainer. I’m watching you eating those foods. You know those aren’t on the meal plan.” He’s like, “Oh, it’s a party.” I’m like, “I know but you have goals right?” Anyways, I would get frustrated with that thinking why is it so hard, just stop eating junk food and you’ll see results. It shouldn’t be this hard.
Drew: Him and a couple of other clients were coming like, “You don’t understand how hard it is for you. It’s easy because you’ve always in been shape.” I’m like, “You know what? You’re right. Maybe I don’t understand.” I felt like there was something I need to learn as a trainer. That’s when the thought process start in my head as far as, “Okay, what can I do to have a better understanding? To relate to my clients.” I knew I needed to do something online.
Training two or three clients per week in person isn’t, can’t make a full living off that and I just decided to do something online. I can’t remember where I was or when the idea happened. I think it was one of my road trips for my medical job but I thought of this idea to get fat on purpose and I know it sounds crazy to everybody but it made sense in my mind and it click and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I think I’m really going to do this.”
I started calling my wife at the time, I called family, friends. I’m like, “What do you guys think about this idea?” “You should totally do it.” I just was like, “Oh my gosh.” I started putting together little business plan and mapped it all out. I had no idea how to start a YouTube channel or create a website and I just started learning all these things and two or three months later. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to do it.”
I think only Facebook was the only popular thing around back then. Twitter maybe was taken off but it was so complicated. I’m like, “Why do I need Twitter if I have Facebook?” Anyways, it was mostly on Facebook at first and then I evolved from there but that’s the story of how it started in a nutshell.
Jay: That’s really fascinating. I resonate with you. I wasn’t always a fitness guy but I think mentally, I relate with you because I’m … It’s like you were saying you either do it or you don’t. In my mind, it’s like I think of it, I categorize it as you’re making excuses or you’re just going to suck it up and do it.
Jay: For me, it’s binary. It’s on or off. It’s like there’s no in between. If you’re dedicated to a program or dedicated to losing weight or becoming fat or whatever program you’re on, you’re just going to do it. I don’t take excuses. I think it’s difficult for people like us to really understand the struggles and the plight of people that might not be as mentally disciplined as we are.
I think it’s pretty interesting the way that you approached that. Now also, having said that, as someone that does care about fitness and a bit vain, vanity is definitely part of who I am as well. I like to look good and lean. For someone to get fat on purpose, I’ve gone through many bulks here and there and when I go from single digit body fat, even to clicking up to 14, 15%, I, emotionally it’s difficult for me to see myself like that because you know you see yourself progressing the other way from all the hard work that you’ve been doing.
That must have been quite challenging for you. Tell us a little bit about that process. I think it’s … First of all, it’s fascinating that you spotted the trend in technology and online, that’s good and you definitely capitalized on that. Now, when you are going through this process, you must have been … First of all, it must have been very difficult for you being a fitness guy all together. How did you feel during the six-month transformation?
Drew: Yeah, that’s the thing. It was so humbling. It was way harder than I ever thought it would be because here’s the thing. I can relate to you because you associate your identity with what your body looks like. Most people do whether they’re skinny or fit or overweight, that’s part of your identity. When you change that, you lose that like when I lost my six pack and I gained all this fat. I freaked out. I’m like, “This isn’t me.” I wanted to go up to complete strangers and say, “Hey, I’m not really overweight. This isn’t really what I look like. Here’s an old picture of me. This is just an experiment.”
I freaked out and I dissociated who I was with what my body looked like and when that was gone, I didn’t really know who I was. It was very hard mentally and emotionally, physically I knew I was going to get fat, man boobs and a big gut. I knew that was going to happen but I didn’t realize how much it would affect me on a mental and emotional level.
I’d be super self-conscious in front of my wife at the time. I would cover up and stepping out of the shower or anytime we’re intimate, the lights were always off like I just, I didn’t want to see myself naked and I’m hurt to see me naked. It was so much harder than I every imagine it would be and that’s what my book was into is those lessons of the things that I learned in a different perspective going through this journey.
I learned so many valuable lessons along the way that even though it was humbling and it was way harder than I thought it would be, I wouldn’t take it back for anything. I have no regrets doing it because I learned so many valuable lessons to where now I can relate to my clients much better. They can relate to me so much better because they used to tell me all the time that I was just another trainer with a six-pack and what did I know about them in their journey. They’re like, “Man, I feel like you came down to our levels.” What they would tell me and I think people could relate to that so much more.
Jay: Yeah, I think it’s awesome because that’s a big thing. That actually was the reason when I was … Years ago, I was always resistant against using personal trainers because I thought of them as you don’t understand the plight, the struggles that a normal person go through or it’s like, “Oh, well you do this the whole time. If I had all day to work out and be a personal trainer, I’d look like you too.” What was the worst, single worst part about being overweight or fat if you will? Was it the emotional side of it or was it the actual like how you felt physically? Because I know that if I go out for a week on a vacation, I eat garbage, I physically don’t feel good either.
Drew: It was a combination of both because here’s the thing, they go hand in hand because for example I had so much lack of energy and feeling lethargic all the time to where it’s affected my sleep. I would snore, I started [inaudible 00:13:49] about two months in and when your sleep is affected, your hormones are affected. When your hormones are out of lack, that leads you into the mental and emotional side of you being grumpy or moody based off those physical changes happening.
They go hand in hand in my opinion. Yeah, I would say it was emotional, mental and emotional side. Physically, I didn’t … I was big but I didn’t feel like I was dying. I just felt like, “Man, I just have so little energy to do stuff to help out, run the house, play with my kids. Just feeling lazy is the way I felt all the time.” But I think the hardest part for me was being this overweight person on public and seeing what’s it like not that I had a complete understanding but I can see what it was like for some of my clients being out in public.
No one was ever mean to me or judge me or said mean things to me but I remember the stairs I got, go to the grocery store and filling out my cart with a bunch of junk food. I felt like people are looking at my stomach a little bit differently. Are they judging me? Are they not? This is so hard for me. I wanted just to tell people this is an experiment and I couldn’t do it. It was a combination of both but they go hand in hand in my opinion.
Jay: Yeah, because those are the things you normally don’t, you won’t even be subconscious. If someone’s looking at you when you’re just walking around, you would never ever in your mind be like, “Oh, he’s looking at me because I’m overweight.” That just wouldn’t be in that dataset.
Drew: Yeah, yeah. It’s so [inaudible 00:15:18] man.
Jay: There must have been a fair share of criticism that you had to encounter when you went through this transformation. Tell us about some of the things that … I’m talking about people saying, “Oh, this is a marketing hoax.” Or “Oh, he’s out of line. He shouldn’t do this. Why is he doing this on purpose?” Blah-blah-blah. There must be have been some criticism somewhere right?
Drew: Oh yeah, no. There definitely was but I’ll say this. 90% of the time, 90 to 95% of it was positive. The 5 to 10% was people who didn’t understand why I was doing it. If they just saw a picture on yahoo.com which is when it went viral, they’re like, “Personal trainer is getting obese.” or something like that. People would be like, “What the hell? That’s stupid. Why is this guy doing it? It doesn’t make sense. What an idiot. Yeah, he’s doing it for marketing, for fame.”
But then once they have saw my videos on YouTube and read my blogs and understood why I was doing it, then they are more understanding and empathetic towards, “Okay, this guy’s really trying to understand better. He’s trying to relate to his clients and he’s being humble through this process. He’s not making fun of people who are overweight. He’s not saying, “Look. I can do it so can you.” That wasn’t the point of it.
I feel like once people understood why I was doing it, then it made more sense in their mind and they weren’t as harsh or critical but if they just saw a picture before and after like, “Oh, what an idiot.” Versus if they actually took the time to read my blogs and watch my videos. They can see how it changed me, how it humbled me and how it changed my perspective of how I train clients.
Jay: Right. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. You’re actually like a meme now. I think I was bora the other day just answering some questions then I saw yours like, “Oh, what can happen in six months?” Then I saw your transformation. It’s quite cool. Tell us about … I want to talk a little bit about the business side of things. When you came across this idea, obviously brilliant idea on your road trip that you came up with and then I think it’s fascinating to see how that has … You’ve just parlayed that into an incredible business with obviously a best-selling book and now you have a TV show.
Initially, when you started, you started off just as a blog documenting your journey on YouTube, at what point did you … You said you were at a crossroads at one point. Did you have to, “Okay, I’m going to give up my day job and do this full-time.” Where you actually making any income at that time? This was early on when you had just started documenting or was it after the journey?
Drew: No, this was during while I was documenting it but it wasn’t until about four months into my Fit To Fat journey that things started take off. In the beginning, I had some ads on my website and maybe made a hundred bucks a month from these Google ads on my website. One day, it got, one of these fitness bloggers blogged about me and yahoo.com picked it up and posted on their homepage on yahoo.com right where the news articles are.
That’s when things blew up. That’s when every TV show called me and wanted to book for their show. Then that’s when I got a call from this publishing firm HarperCollins and said, “Hey, we’ve read through your blogs. We’ve seen your journey. We think it’s amazing. We think it should be a great book. Would you be interested in?” I had no idea.
Jay: That all just came to you. You didn’t actually have … You weren’t actually soliciting.
Jay: Press or anything like that.
Drew: No, I did some free press releases which I don’t know if anybody even sees those but I never got any responses from those. I didn’t have a marketing strategy. I didn’t have connections. I didn’t have any big plans for this to take off to be honest with you. I thought maybe the local news here in Utah would pick it up but to be honest with you, I do feel very fortunate and blessed that this went viral and I feel lucky in a way for sure.
Yeah, the TV show started calling and searching all these TV shows and I would be in surgeries and then I remember my phone would have to be off during surgeries. When I would get out, my phone would be blown up with voicemails and text messages like, “Dude, I saw you on Yahoo.com.” Everybody, friends that I haven’t talked in years they were like, “Oh, my gosh. I saw what you’re doing.” It was crazy and I didn’t have any expectations for that. Once the book deal happened, I felt like okay, if I’m going to write this book, I think I had three or four months to write it which as you know …
Jay: That’s it? Wow.
Drew: Yeah, because I had to write it during the journey while I was doing it and it had to be ready and published by the time I lost all the weight. It was so much work. I knew I had to choose between my medical job or Fit to Fat to Fit so I chose Fit To Fat To Fit and here we are six years later …
Jay: Did you have savings? You’ve basically then … you just gave up your job and you were going to dedicate … Was there a book advance that you can at least keep the lights on with?
Drew: Yeah, no. There was a book advance which definitely helped out and then my wife at the time, she had a job as well. I didn’t just quit that day. It was like, “Okay, I’ll help train the new person that comes in to replace me.” It wasn’t working as much but I was still … I had that for about a month while I started writing my book.
Yes, there was some things, there wasn’t like a huge leap of faith where I’m like, “Okay, I think I’m going to go this route without any kind of income or advance from the book but that’s how it went down.”
Jay: Okay, cool. That was your book and the journey was 2012 or 11? Is that what you said?
Drew: 2012 is when I finished it. I started it in May 7th or 2011, May 5th 2012 was my ending date.
Jay: Okay. Cool. Let’s talk about after that. Fast forward. After the book and the transformation and now that you’ve done that round trip, being someone that wasn’t fitness, it’s very easy for people like us on this side of things to call overweight people lazy and be more judgmental about how we view people and their discipline and their fitness and their priorities in life, how has that all changed for you now that you’ve been on the other side and you understand the struggles and the plight of someone that is overweight and not only the physical changes that happened but the emotional changes that happened along side that journey. How do you feel differently now about how you view your clients?
Drew: Yeah, just to put into perspective. Before, I used to focus so much more in the physical side of the transformation of weight loss. Someone was struggling to lose weight. I’m like, “All right. Let’s push harder in the gym, let’s change up your workouts. Let’s look at your meal plan. Let’s look at your food journal.” That’s what all that was about. I was like, “Okay, this is the key right here.”
But reality, I had no idea the mental and emotional trials that people went through until I went through this journey because before, like I said, I couldn’t understand why people couldn’t let go of their junk food until I did it and I tried to get off of it and it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. It was like getting off drugs, your body goes through these withdrawal symptoms and there’s the emotional connection to food is so much more powerful than I ever imagined.
After going through this process in this journey, one of the biggest things I learned was how much a transformation is mental and emotional, way more than physical. You need the meal plans, you need the exercises and everybody knows they need to eat healthy and exercise and there’s some hacks you can do there to maximize that but the struggle is on the mental and emotional side. That’s what I focus on now so much more when I help out clients.
I don’t train people one on one anymore but all my programs online focus more on the mental and emotional side and the TV show, that’s what I’m trying to get these other trainers who have grown up in shape and are self-obsessed and judgmental like I was trying to get them to change their perception of how they view their clients and the struggles that they go through because there’s a huge gap that exists there in my opinion in the fitness world of these skinny fit people who think it’s so easy, eat less and move more.
When in reality, there’s so much more to it and that’s why there’s such a huge divide in my opinion. With my Fit to Fat to Fit movement is what I call it through the TV show and through my brand, I’m trying to help bridge that gap by by coaching other trainers through this process on the TV show to gain a better understanding of the mental and emotional side by doing this Fit to Fat to Fit journey.
Jay: That’s awesome. What are some of the things that you specifically like to focus on on the mental side and the emotional side? When you approach a client or a client approaches you for the first time, forget about the tactics, jumping into the workout and the diet and nutrition plans, what are some of the first things that you focus on?
Drew: The two biggest things would be support and accountability. Support system and being accountable to someone else other than themselves. To be able to just try and jump in and do it themselves like, “Okay, this year I’m going to lose a hundred pounds and I’m just going to work out everyday and not eat sugar or drink soda ever again.” They just try and do it by themselves because they are afraid of … They tell people and they don’t follow through then they’re afraid of that failure, but that fear is actually very powerful.
I tell people to announce to their friends, family and online community if you will their intentions, their goals of what they want to accomplish because then that makes them accountable because then those people, their friends, family or community online are going to help keep them accountable during that process because there’s just going to be days were they want to quit and they want to give up and it’s going to be hard and they don’t want to do it anymore.
They have those people, that support system to remind them that they are worth it to continue to fight for their health, that they are worth it to not necessarily be skinny or be fit but to become healthy. That’s what the support system does and staying accountable to a community will do for people versus just giving them meal plans and exercises.
I tell people, “Look, whether you’re a paleo, vegan, keto, vegetarian whatever it is, find what works for you and make it a lifestyle change. Don’t just say I’m going to do this for 30 days and lose a bunch of weight and then gain it back again. Find what works for you. Make it a lifestyle change and the way they make it the lifestyle change is by overcoming those mental and emotional challenges. In order to that, you need the support system and accountability along the way. Otherwise, if you try and do it by yourself, it’s so much harder.”
Jay: Yes. Fitness is all about accountability for sure.
Jay: Let’s switch gears and talk about your personal rituals, habits as an entrepreneur. What are some of the things that you do on a daily basis that just help keep you going? Obviously, fitness is a big thing. I work out nearly everyday. I imagine you do as well. I find it one of the best productivity hacks that any entrepreneur can do because I work in the morning and my mind is just on fire after that. Tell us about some of your daily rituals and habits. What do you do on the daily basis that helps you be successful as an entrepreneur?
Drew: One of the things that I preach not only in the fitness world but also in the entrepreneurial world is a healthier you is a happier you. If you can find ways to make time for yourself throughout the day, you’re going to be a better version of yourself as a mom or a dad or a spouse or an employee or as an entrepreneur if you take the time even though we think we’re sacrificing or being selfish if we sacrifice our time to work out or meditate or do positive affirmations or sit down and read a book.
We think, “I just need to be grinding so hard 12, 14 hours a day.” When in reality, if you learn how to work out smarter in the gym or on your business, it’s just going to give you more return on investment in my opinion versus just grinding until you eventually crash and burn.
Jay: Yeah, absolutely. The knowledge that you give in the gym is exactly the same. People will spin their wills doing hours of cardio and I think that that’s the most effective way but it’s not.
Drew: Yes, exactly. Yeah, a couple of things that I do, yeah I do take time to meditate every morning. I try and focus on things that help me with discipline. For example, I know it’s weird but I make my bed every morning which I don’t think that makes me a better entrepreneur but at the same time, I know that I’m going to do that every single day just like I’m going to meditate, do my positive affirmations just like I’m going to go to the gym, just like I’m going to eat healthy that day and that helps to keep non track by staying discipline with just small and simple things but you wouldn’t think really makes a difference. In the end, it’s those small and simple things that make the biggest difference.
Jay: Being an entrepreneur, its ups and downs, ups and downs. I can’t think of a day that I’ve gone through in the last several years where I haven’t had peaks and troughs emotionally of things that, “Oh, I got featured on the blog.” Or “I got some good news. I have some good momentum.” And then, “Oh, I got another rejection.” How do you deal with failure consistently on a daily basis? Is there any tricks that you do to dig yourself out of the emotional troughs that all entrepreneurs go through?
Drew: Yeah, that’s a great question and trust me, I’ve been through a lot of failures in the past five or six years. I know I don’t have time to cover all of them but I’ve learned so many humbling lessons from the entrepreneurial standpoint of what to do and what not to do. I’ve had a lot of headaches and stressful moments but one book that comes to mind that tells me out with that is called Loving What Is and I can’t remember the author’s name but it totally changed my perception of beating yourself up of living in the past of those failures and be like, “Man, this could have happened, it should have happened, this would have happened.”
We beat ourselves up all the time about those past failures and since then, I’ve just been able to let go of what is and love it the way it is because that was meant to happen for a reason. Maybe still learn some lessons from it and apply what I could do differently in the future but at the same time I choose not to live in the past because if I live in the past, that is just going to set me up for feeling guilty or shamed or like a failure versus living in the moment.
That’s why the things like meditation, positive affirmations and reading books I think in my opinion helps out in those situations of dealing with failure. You can chose how you view it though I think that’s the key right there is that we have the ability to choose how we view that failure and trust me, I know it’s fighting, its human nature to feel like a failure when you have failed but failure is a part of success.
You don’t become successful unless you fail. That’s a part of it just like working out, you don’t get fit unless you’re sore or working out in the gym. Do something that is uncomfortable, that is hard sometimes and it’s the same mentality in the entrepreneurial world as well.
Jay: Absolutely. It’s so powerful if you are able to reframe that mindset. Life happens for you, not to you.
Jay: He talks about how all the failures and all the hardship that he went through in his life made him who he is today. That’s exactly what entrepreneurs have to do. Drew, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you’re working on these days? What you have in the pipeline for 2017 where people can find you, follow you, connect with you if there’s anything that you’re working on specifically that might interest our audience.
Drew: Yes, first thing, big announcement. Season two of Fit To Fat To Fit we’ll be airing this spring. I’m not sure when this episode will air but some time in April or May, we don’t have a set date yet. We’re just finishing filming the last couple months of the season. I’ll be looking for that on A&E it’s called Fit To Fat To Fit.
Drew: I recently launched a couple of programs on my website. If you go to fit2fat2fit.com with the numbers two, with the number two, F-I-T-2-F-A-T-2-F-I-T.com. I have a six-month transformation program which talks about support and accountability. You get access to a private Facebook group with me and my team of other people going through the journey as well. You can share your successes, your struggles, your failures along the way which I think is super powerful for people as they begin any type of fitness journey but it’s a complete physical, mental and emotional transformation journey.
That’s at transform.fit2fat2fit.com. Then all my other programs, you can just find on my website fit2fat2fit.com. Follow me on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, everything at fit2fat2fit all the same with the number two.
Jay: Nice. Awesome. Drew, thanks so much for being on this show. Guys, Drew is the man he obviously, obviously has proven that he can get you from overweight to lean again. He’s done the roundtrip journey. Go over fit2fat2fit.com. I will link it up all in the show notes. Drew, it was awesome catching up with you. Thanks again for your time,.
Drew: Thanks Jay. Appreciate it man. Have a good one.
Jay: All right, take care.
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